Discussion about this post

User's avatar
James Elkins's avatar

Tara & everyone,

Hi, sorry I've been an intermittent poster. I'm glad to see the question of length has been raised again. I hope it isn't too hopelessly gauche to re-phrase some things I contributed back in June or July.

Tara, I'm especially fascinated by the problem of length; for the last five years I've been moderating a couple of reading groups on long novels. One of the groups is on Arno Schmidt's doorstop of a book, "Bottom's Dream." We've been reading that for almost four years now, and we're only halfway through. I think our consensus is that he wanted to write something a magnitude longer than the book he was rivaling, "Finnegans Wake." Schmidt's book had to be 10 times the length of FW, because if it had only been, say, twice as long, people would have said it was "inspired" or "influenced" by FW. It had to be a creature of a different color. I wish Lucy Ellmann's "Ducks, Newburyport" was at least 2,000 pages, for the same reason: its stream of consciousness needs to be not just slightly greater than the nearest equivalent (recently, that would be Mathias Enard; earlier, Woolf), but an order of magnitude greater.

Back in June or July I suggested Stein's "The Making of Americans" as a parallel to "Miss MacIntosh." In Stein's book the level, uniform, repetitive, nearly faceless prose resulted in a novel more famously unread than Miss MacIntosh. (Examples: E.O. Wilson said he didn't think it was possible to finish it; the first book-length monograph on it, George Moore's, didn't appear until 1998.) Stein had a modernist interest in repetition and the dismantling of grammar and reference, and in Young I think there's a romantic impetus to incantation and immersion.

So here are three tentative reasons why some books might be long:

(1) Their authors feel their novels need to be an order of magnitude larger than whatever models they had in mind, in order to overwhelm their predecessors. (Schmidt, "Finnegans Wake," "Making of Americans")

(2) Or their authors felt they needed to pass a certain mark, say 1,000 pages, to be considered alongside their models. ("Infinite Jest," "2666," "Ducks, Newburyport")

(3) Or -- and this is what I suspect for Miss MacIntosh -- length isn't really an essential property, because the novel is the result of continuous writing without concerted planning or comparison.

But if something like that is true of Miss MacIntosh, then we're justified in thinking about excerpts, or portions, or chapters, that could represent the whole in an ideal edited version.

Expand full comment
Nownewstrue's avatar

I remember reading but would have to go hunting for the source that Young had described what was cut and why she agreed with the cuts. I couldn't get into poetry until I looked at paganism and wicca and then suddenly it clicked. Paganism also helped me understand Miss MacIntosh and her anger over calendars. I look forward to reading this again and delving into more and also the main point, which for me is exploring creativity or creativity unhindered. Young was also raised in a Christian home through her grandmother and she said in an interview when people said - devil get thee behind me she would whirl around to try and catch a look at the devil behind her!

Expand full comment
9 more comments...

No posts